Those damn, happy atheists!!! Curse them!

I'm seriously getting fed up with religions claiming they have ownership of morality. Apparently, they have 'true' rules to live by since they were given by a supreme, perfect being.

Hmmmm.

Some religions like to soften up the 'rules' by saying they are 'guidance' and of course you are free to to choose your path. Some religions take it to an extreme and use it as a blunt instrument to control or persecute people - quite often, their own believers!

Either way, eventually, if you don't follow the rules, you don't go to heaven - which means you go elsewhere. Nasty.

Nice way to live your life. Trying to follow the rules of a perfect being. Of course you CAN'T. Because YOU are not perfect. YOU will make errors of judgement. YOU are a deeply flawed individual. YOU have been corrupted by all the nasty little temptations in life. YOU may have even listened to ATHEISTS!!!

Us atheists eh? Look at us, living our lives without worrying about whether we might upset god(tm). Using our OWN moral judgements, considering what effect it will have on others around us, ENJOYING life, freethinking, gasping with wonder at the universe - the chaos - the very LIFE! Hey, we don't even have 'self worth' issues about having a common ape-like ancestor - we revel in the fact that all life is linked. We don't need fairy tales to help us understand the 'difficult' science.

But if you are a believer in whatever plethora of gods that really most likely don't exist, don't worry about it.

Seriously.

Those damn, happy atheists will not be laughing when YOU prove them wrong. When you have lived a flawless life. Given up your gut instincts and followed someone else's moral code. Picked the ONE TRUE religion (or splinter group of that religion) out of the tens of thousands. Chosen how EXACTLY how to interpret the holy book and know which phrases did not really apply and reinterpret some phrases so they are more convenient for you.

You KNOW there is a true god(tm). So you simply can't be wrong...




Personally, I'll remain a damned, happy atheist, than you very much. :-)

Summoning demons...

OK, so as an atheist I have to look at differing opinions of the 'believer'. So lets have a look at satanism. And in particular - summoning demons! Yay!

I have been warned by many people over the years about studying, learning or even having a fleeting interest in anything considered remotely 'occult'. But it is fascinating. (That is EXACTLY the thing I should be worried about, apparently...) And they say the devil has all the best tunes - probably because 'christian-rock' is so utterly sh*t.

It has been suggested that atheists do the 'devil's work' with all our disbelief, and criticism and I'd thought I'd balance the situation.

If there is evidence of ghosts, spirits, demons, djinns, fauns, faeries etc. then the argument for an afterlife / heaven / higher plane of existence becomes a better probability. Interestingly, if you believe in a god, then by default you are expected to believe in the personification of evil. (As if the original idea wasn't silly enough. Talking snake! Tsk!)

The site I browsed was here. And I can't fail to be impressed with the excuses if you fail to summon a demon. But if you are looking for 'proof'

BTW - You can tell if a demon has visited by the following:
1) There might be a breeze.
2) You might get a 'feeling'.
3) A candle might flicker.
4) You might have a dream about a demon.

Oh yes. I am SO convinced. ( But then I did dream about pasta once which can only prove the existence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. )

There are some gullible idiots out there. But hey! If any satanists are reading this, please feel free to send me any demonic proof. Since, according to christians, I am going to be sent to your mythical retirement home, maybe even some kind of 'welcome pack' perhaps? Or even an imp or two? Maybe my shoelaces won't untie!!! Oh what devilry!

ps. In satanist's defence, the ONE I have knowingly met and talked to was quite a nice chap with strong moral beliefs that I would not have expected. He did have a bit of hero worship for Hitler - which failed to impress me but you seriously could not have picked him out of a crowd.

Conversations with a (nice) christian.

This is a response to my 'Alpha Course' post. (If it has scrolled off the bottom of the page then 'clicky!' )
'JL' is one of those nice christians who (in my experience) make up the majority of christians that are willing to talk to me. Currently we are in the middle of a friendly 'holy war' at our school, where she is trying to get me to appreciate Jesus and I am bestowing the gift of Pastafarian knowledge. I have shown her undeniable evidence of FSM's power by making her jump and pointing out how the kind FSM brings her safely back to Earth with his noodly appendages. (He loves us all and keeps us safe - FACT!)

Randomfish, I believe I might even have been the long-haired born-again that suggested an Alpha course to you.

Yep, The most recent one.

It's not like you have anything to lose, anyway :-p

Well, my scientific reasoning for one...

re: 'based on a relationship, not knowledge'
It always makes me smile that people get so OUTRAGED that the Bible is younger than Jesus, or at least most of it. That it's been *gasp* ADDED TO(!!!111) over the years. Of course it has. Ours is a living God. He didn't just speak once 6000 years ago (you heard right, DB!) and that was it. If you develop a relationship with your living God, he will speak to you. And he will tell you do not have a religion based on laws, you have a new life based on His loving gospel.

We agree here. Religion (especially christianity) has evolved. It has HAD to! Let's face it, if we had the same thinking as we did 1000 years ago, you would look pretty stupid now.
We don't get ill because god is punishing us. We get better because we 1) take medicine or 2) naturally get better over time.
Gods don't live in the sky. We are not the centre of the universe. Evolution is happening. The Earth is over 6000 years old. Morality is not owned by any religion...
Damn those astronomers, doctors, biologists, historians, geologists, philosophers...! They have had to make those crrraaaazzzyyy christians do some drastic rejigging of what to believe! LOL.

'Faith is more important than logic'

Logic is more important than blind faith. Blind faith is an insult to intelligence and reason. Blind faith can be harmful. For example, feel my pain when Arsenal lose! (Thankfully rarely!)

Don't pretend that you have faith in nothing, that faith in itself is ridiculous. You have faith in love, if nothing else, surely.

I DO have faith in humanity; kindness of strangers; love and hope. They are essential for understanding our humanity. I just don't attribute an imaginary friend to fill the gaps in knowledge.

Logic tells me that you can't get evolution from one species to another, only within species. Science tells me that even after thousands and thousands of generations of fly mutations, a fly is still a fly. So how did every living species in the world evolve from a fish? Including, presumably: turnips, scabies mite, chinchillas, sharks etc etc? Are you not putting your faith in a straaaange theory of evolution, hmmmmmm? ;)

Fellow humanists/ atheists, JL is a really nice person and please do not judge someone on their lack of understanding of evolution.

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/different-patterns-of-evolution.html
http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/sat-ii-biology-understanding-origins-of-life.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution

'Because of who god is, we will always have questions'
Of course. And let's face it, when Jesus came and proclaimed himself the Son of God, not many people believed him, and what more proof could God really give us? Perhaps you would like a book full of graphs and diagrams, haha.

I proclaim to be the leader of Alpha Centauri. Can you see the problem with that? Jesus was not the first prophet to claim to lead the Jews. He happened to be the most famous. Stories told, generations later, wrote the gospels with a bias to make him more holy. Events were taken from a wide variety of religions (resurrection, death on a cross, virgin birth, claim of godhood, miracles, 12 followers, betrayal, ascension) sometimes even directly rewriting existing religions. See Dionysus, Osiris, Mithra...
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa3.htm
Jesus, the man, existed.
Jesus, the son of a god, sadly (but it would actually have been rather groovy) is HIGHLY UNLIKELY. More likely a work of fiction and copyright theft.

"You are sinners and in need of a lord and saviour".
Hell for you probably isn't the same idea of hell for me. I think there is a cartoon idea based on lakes of fire with a little red devil with pitchforks. In reality, to me anyway, hell is death; it is separation from love and joy; from contentment and safety and the Lord. For me, now that I know the Lord, no pit of burning sulphur could ever hold as much sadness and fear as separation from His love. But that's just me.

Ahh, you refer to the 'nice' Hell. Depends on how literally one takes the bible doesn't it? Even Jesus refers to Gehenna.
Two very useful sites below
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/jesusteachingonhell.html
and this is pure class.
http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/hellreal.htm (This nutter is doing theism no favours!)

And finally...
My final point I made in a rather fun theological debate is that JL is ACTUALLY a 'humanist with an imaginary friend'.

Peace to you all.

Persuasion with violence (cont...)

I thought I'd make this a post rather than it getting lost in the depths of comments... :-)

The idea is a 'Hell' is possibly one of the reasons I do not believe in mythology over reason. Funny, when you consider it was such an effective technique in medieval times!

An 'all loving' god that has the capacity to create such a dreadful place? Now there's your problem.

Fortunately, I don't believe in 'Hell'. Unfortunately, theists do. And it's the theists that actually want me to go to Hell scare me.
Let's think about it... there are things in the world that I would not wish on my worst enemies. There are things that I would not wish on ANYBODY.

But there ARE theists who wish the obscene, violent, suffering of Hell on me for ever! At the very least, they think I will go there and they don't have a problem with it! That is just sick. And I really pity them. To be so twisted by what they believe to be right, they can see no wrong in any of their actions.

Ladies and gentlemen, a fine example of religious morality! (sigh) And this in a world where people are outraged about conditions in prisons! Where liberals campaign about suspected terrorists tortured in Guantanamo Bay to keep our countries 'safe'. But when it's religion... oh of course - burn the heathens and followers of false (depending on where you live) religions. Make them SUFFER!!!

But, to keep a sense of balance...
I have had conversations with (much nicer) christians who believe that 'Hell' is merely the absence of a god. And because I would never be embraced by his love, it would be 'hell' in comparison.
This is a considerably more pleasant approach than the 'fire and brimstone' bollocks I so often hear. But I do argue that the bible does make it quite clear about what will happen to the likes of me. It all depends on what percentage of the bible you consider an analogy, I guess. ;-)

Personally, and I say this as a parent of three very well behaved children and as a teacher, threats do not convince people to behave. Only by setting a good example, treating people fairly and with respect, will you have any chance of getting a message across.