Thought I'd answer this anoymous person on the main blog. :-)

Been a bit shy on the blogging front lately... however, this gem landed in my comments section. My new comments are, quite helpfully, coloured red.

7 comments:

Anonymous said...

Until your god, Science, can keep you from dying you will have to deal with the real one at some point.
Scientific studies show that belief in Jesus greatly reduces stress, anger, and hostility in most people...if you believe those sort of studies.

So I replied...

15 September 2009 21:16

Randomfish said...

Science is not a god.
Belief in a deity will reduce stress if you are the kind of person who worries about death and ghost stories.
A lot of people who call themselves christians are, in my opinion, LESS tolerant of others. At worst they see themselves as morally superior or at least, a better person for having that 'belief'.
A lot of christians ARE less hostile, but too few will turn the other cheek as recommended by Jesus. I have a great deal of respect for nice people. I just don't think that being a believer makes the slightest bit of difference. I personally would rather trust a genuine nice person than someone who is doing it because they are 'told to' or will 'go to heaven'.

So 'anonymous' made quite a few reply statements...

15 September 2009 21:28

Anonymous said...

Science is not a god.
- - - - - -
I'm glad I'm getting through to you.

AARRggghh!!! Since WHEN has ANY atheist EVER thought 'Science' was a 'god'. This is an utterly ridiculous statement that has no merit answering. (They should try getting their nose out of a bible and try a dictionary for a change!)

...but too few will turn the other cheek as recommended by Jesus.
- - - - - -
We do try harder than the folks who sit in the bleachers calling the fouls.

Sorry, I'm not sure what this statement means. :-) Being British and all that. But in my personal experience and opinion (it is MY blog after all) I have found NO difference to the many atheists that easily forgive others. Forgiveness is not the exclusive right to religious folk. Declaring a 'Holy war' on the other hand...

16 September 2009 05:31

Anonymous said...

You exhibit very little tolerance in your post for those you claim are intolerant.
Why complain about Christians who don't turn the other cheek? Isn't this an indication that they are rejecting what you also despise? Perhaps they are well on their way to your side. Otherwise, if you are in agreement with this teaching, then you concede that Christianity does carry some merit.

I readily admit, I like a good rant. Clears the air. Stops you bottling stuff up inside. I apologise but I really hate to see a waste of intellect. (This is the reason I became a teacher!) When someone informs me that the Earth is 4000 years old, my first thought is 'You poor, misinformed person.' If they carry on then I'll try to explain, reasonably, why they are wrong. And if they still carry on then I will mock them.

16 September 2009 15:21

Anonymous said...

I personally would rather trust a genuine nice person than someone who is doing it because they are 'told to' or will 'go to heaven'.
- - - - - - - - -
You must do some interesting screening when someone stops to help you fix a flat or pick up something you dropped on the ground....Sir, are you helping me because you want to go to heaven or because you think I might give you a tip? I hope you are helping me for no reason other than for evolutionary and scientific purposes, as this is a genuine motivation and will allow me to trust you in much higher matters such as babysitting my young daughters and managing my bank account.

That was funny! :-) Actually I might start asking people who help me! Seriously. And this is what I predict. Most people will do nice things BECAUSE they are nice people. Not because they are hoping to go to heaven/ nirvanna/ valhalla/ reincarnate as a cow etc... My conclusion, they don't need a sky pixie. You may disagree. (And I'm sure you will...)

16 September 2009 15:34

Anonymous said...

Belief in a deity will reduce stress if you are the kind of person who worries about death and ghost stories.
- - - - - - -
Belief in science will induce stress if you are the kind of person who worries about global warming and aliens.

I am actually getting my breath back from laughing out loud at this! Thanks. The idea of aliens would be wonderful! Science has been able to predict events about global warming and the scientific community are working together to provide alternative methods of energy supply. Scientific discoveries are improving lives, saving lives, getting us closer to understanding the wonderful world around us! Having a scientific knowledge has enhanced my life immeasurably. The very fact you are actually criticising science is only available to you because of .... wait for it... scientific discoveries!!! (Electricity, plastics, semiconductors, EM radiation, materials science, electrons.... oh I really could go on.)

Science has made me (and billions of others) happier, safer and more aware of what is happening around us.

If you think you will find all the answers in a holy book, I honestly, HONESTLY, pity you. :-(

16 September 2009 15:48

Anonymous said...

I have a great deal of respect for nice people. I just don't think that being a believer makes the slightest bit of difference.
- - - - -
So, you mean you consider yourself no nicer than the average ignorant ****wit? You shouldn't be so hard on yourself.
The truth is, you think you are better because you can be just as nice with no extra help from God...isn't that right?

Yes.

Sorry, did you want me to explain (again!)
Anyone who does nice things BECAUSE they believe in a god is a ****wit. I am a nice person (well enough people tell me anyway) and I will recieve NO benefit from some supernatural power who can mystically weigh up all my deeds.

Simple version: An altruistic person is nicer than someone who expects a reward for their actions.

Hope that clears things up. Thanks, as always for taking the time to respond to my blog. :-)

Those damn, happy atheists!!! Curse them!

I'm seriously getting fed up with religions claiming they have ownership of morality. Apparently, they have 'true' rules to live by since they were given by a supreme, perfect being.

Hmmmm.

Some religions like to soften up the 'rules' by saying they are 'guidance' and of course you are free to to choose your path. Some religions take it to an extreme and use it as a blunt instrument to control or persecute people - quite often, their own believers!

Either way, eventually, if you don't follow the rules, you don't go to heaven - which means you go elsewhere. Nasty.

Nice way to live your life. Trying to follow the rules of a perfect being. Of course you CAN'T. Because YOU are not perfect. YOU will make errors of judgement. YOU are a deeply flawed individual. YOU have been corrupted by all the nasty little temptations in life. YOU may have even listened to ATHEISTS!!!

Us atheists eh? Look at us, living our lives without worrying about whether we might upset god(tm). Using our OWN moral judgements, considering what effect it will have on others around us, ENJOYING life, freethinking, gasping with wonder at the universe - the chaos - the very LIFE! Hey, we don't even have 'self worth' issues about having a common ape-like ancestor - we revel in the fact that all life is linked. We don't need fairy tales to help us understand the 'difficult' science.

But if you are a believer in whatever plethora of gods that really most likely don't exist, don't worry about it.

Seriously.

Those damn, happy atheists will not be laughing when YOU prove them wrong. When you have lived a flawless life. Given up your gut instincts and followed someone else's moral code. Picked the ONE TRUE religion (or splinter group of that religion) out of the tens of thousands. Chosen how EXACTLY how to interpret the holy book and know which phrases did not really apply and reinterpret some phrases so they are more convenient for you.

You KNOW there is a true god(tm). So you simply can't be wrong...




Personally, I'll remain a damned, happy atheist, than you very much. :-)

Conversations with a (nice) christian.

This is a response to my 'Alpha Course' post. (If it has scrolled off the bottom of the page then 'clicky!' )
'JL' is one of those nice christians who (in my experience) make up the majority of christians that are willing to talk to me. Currently we are in the middle of a friendly 'holy war' at our school, where she is trying to get me to appreciate Jesus and I am bestowing the gift of Pastafarian knowledge. I have shown her undeniable evidence of FSM's power by making her jump and pointing out how the kind FSM brings her safely back to Earth with his noodly appendages. (He loves us all and keeps us safe - FACT!)

Randomfish, I believe I might even have been the long-haired born-again that suggested an Alpha course to you.

Yep, The most recent one.

It's not like you have anything to lose, anyway :-p

Well, my scientific reasoning for one...

re: 'based on a relationship, not knowledge'
It always makes me smile that people get so OUTRAGED that the Bible is younger than Jesus, or at least most of it. That it's been *gasp* ADDED TO(!!!111) over the years. Of course it has. Ours is a living God. He didn't just speak once 6000 years ago (you heard right, DB!) and that was it. If you develop a relationship with your living God, he will speak to you. And he will tell you do not have a religion based on laws, you have a new life based on His loving gospel.

We agree here. Religion (especially christianity) has evolved. It has HAD to! Let's face it, if we had the same thinking as we did 1000 years ago, you would look pretty stupid now.
We don't get ill because god is punishing us. We get better because we 1) take medicine or 2) naturally get better over time.
Gods don't live in the sky. We are not the centre of the universe. Evolution is happening. The Earth is over 6000 years old. Morality is not owned by any religion...
Damn those astronomers, doctors, biologists, historians, geologists, philosophers...! They have had to make those crrraaaazzzyyy christians do some drastic rejigging of what to believe! LOL.

'Faith is more important than logic'

Logic is more important than blind faith. Blind faith is an insult to intelligence and reason. Blind faith can be harmful. For example, feel my pain when Arsenal lose! (Thankfully rarely!)

Don't pretend that you have faith in nothing, that faith in itself is ridiculous. You have faith in love, if nothing else, surely.

I DO have faith in humanity; kindness of strangers; love and hope. They are essential for understanding our humanity. I just don't attribute an imaginary friend to fill the gaps in knowledge.

Logic tells me that you can't get evolution from one species to another, only within species. Science tells me that even after thousands and thousands of generations of fly mutations, a fly is still a fly. So how did every living species in the world evolve from a fish? Including, presumably: turnips, scabies mite, chinchillas, sharks etc etc? Are you not putting your faith in a straaaange theory of evolution, hmmmmmm? ;)

Fellow humanists/ atheists, JL is a really nice person and please do not judge someone on their lack of understanding of evolution.

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/different-patterns-of-evolution.html
http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/sat-ii-biology-understanding-origins-of-life.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution

'Because of who god is, we will always have questions'
Of course. And let's face it, when Jesus came and proclaimed himself the Son of God, not many people believed him, and what more proof could God really give us? Perhaps you would like a book full of graphs and diagrams, haha.

I proclaim to be the leader of Alpha Centauri. Can you see the problem with that? Jesus was not the first prophet to claim to lead the Jews. He happened to be the most famous. Stories told, generations later, wrote the gospels with a bias to make him more holy. Events were taken from a wide variety of religions (resurrection, death on a cross, virgin birth, claim of godhood, miracles, 12 followers, betrayal, ascension) sometimes even directly rewriting existing religions. See Dionysus, Osiris, Mithra...
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa3.htm
Jesus, the man, existed.
Jesus, the son of a god, sadly (but it would actually have been rather groovy) is HIGHLY UNLIKELY. More likely a work of fiction and copyright theft.

"You are sinners and in need of a lord and saviour".
Hell for you probably isn't the same idea of hell for me. I think there is a cartoon idea based on lakes of fire with a little red devil with pitchforks. In reality, to me anyway, hell is death; it is separation from love and joy; from contentment and safety and the Lord. For me, now that I know the Lord, no pit of burning sulphur could ever hold as much sadness and fear as separation from His love. But that's just me.

Ahh, you refer to the 'nice' Hell. Depends on how literally one takes the bible doesn't it? Even Jesus refers to Gehenna.
Two very useful sites below
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/jesusteachingonhell.html
and this is pure class.
http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/hellreal.htm (This nutter is doing theism no favours!)

And finally...
My final point I made in a rather fun theological debate is that JL is ACTUALLY a 'humanist with an imaginary friend'.

Peace to you all.

Persuasion with violence (cont...)

I thought I'd make this a post rather than it getting lost in the depths of comments... :-)

The idea is a 'Hell' is possibly one of the reasons I do not believe in mythology over reason. Funny, when you consider it was such an effective technique in medieval times!

An 'all loving' god that has the capacity to create such a dreadful place? Now there's your problem.

Fortunately, I don't believe in 'Hell'. Unfortunately, theists do. And it's the theists that actually want me to go to Hell scare me.
Let's think about it... there are things in the world that I would not wish on my worst enemies. There are things that I would not wish on ANYBODY.

But there ARE theists who wish the obscene, violent, suffering of Hell on me for ever! At the very least, they think I will go there and they don't have a problem with it! That is just sick. And I really pity them. To be so twisted by what they believe to be right, they can see no wrong in any of their actions.

Ladies and gentlemen, a fine example of religious morality! (sigh) And this in a world where people are outraged about conditions in prisons! Where liberals campaign about suspected terrorists tortured in Guantanamo Bay to keep our countries 'safe'. But when it's religion... oh of course - burn the heathens and followers of false (depending on where you live) religions. Make them SUFFER!!!

But, to keep a sense of balance...
I have had conversations with (much nicer) christians who believe that 'Hell' is merely the absence of a god. And because I would never be embraced by his love, it would be 'hell' in comparison.
This is a considerably more pleasant approach than the 'fire and brimstone' bollocks I so often hear. But I do argue that the bible does make it quite clear about what will happen to the likes of me. It all depends on what percentage of the bible you consider an analogy, I guess. ;-)

Personally, and I say this as a parent of three very well behaved children and as a teacher, threats do not convince people to behave. Only by setting a good example, treating people fairly and with respect, will you have any chance of getting a message across.

Easter and Atheism

Ah, gotta love a holiday. :-)

I like to stay out of the 'Should Easter-time be a non religious holiday?" or "Should atheists be allowed to celebrate Easter?" but I will stick a few of my thoughts down.

1) I live in the UK where Easter is considered a national holiday. So I would be mad to ignore it on non-religious grounds. I simply love spending time with my family, seeing friends, writing, playing and relaxing.
2) I love chocolate. It's a weakness, but any excuse...
3) It has its origins in pagan beliefs, hundreds of years before christianity. We still carry those traditions today.
4) Is it hypocritical of me to celebrate the holiday? No. See point 3. Just because a church wanted to claim that time of year for their own purpose? BTW, I find paganism equally as silly (but considerably more fun than christianity!)
5) It's a part of British culture and history - of which religion is only a part.

So will I celebrate this time of year? Yes.
Will I demand that theists admit they hijacked a pagan celebration; insist they don't take part in pagan rituals like the giving of eggs? No.

Neither side is going to budge, let's enjoy the holiday. :-) *


* Disclaimer- If I do hear something from the church on TV claiming a 'moral monopoly' or how 'important it is to have religion in our lives' then it will be open season on bigots.

Hindu funeral pyres

There is a debate that has now reached the British High Courts about whether a devout Hindu should be allowed to have an open funeral pyre for his death.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7960489.stm
When words such as 'dignity' and 'human rights' are used, then it will invoke powerful emotions in all who take an interest. As a humanist and an atheist I can see different sides of the argument.

1) He sincerely believes that it will benefit him in the next life.
2) Open air cremations are an important part of Hindu culture.
3) There is currently no provision for an open air cremation.

I personally am not against the idea of an open air cremation. And Mr Ghai agrees that there should be regulation involved. But what does concern me is the argument used.

Religion. A religious right?

It seems that the religious trump card is being played again. Why should this have any bearing on the case?

Seriously. Think about it. Do you think I would stand a chance in court if I said that, "I am an atheist and I demand an open funeral pyre in accordance with my non-belief!"

Personally, I would LOVE a big fire (and fireworks) but I really don't think I would stand a chance in court. Mind you, if Mr Ghai gets his wish, then I think I might actually have a go... (Actually my inevitable death will be the subject of a future post.)

Good luck Mr Ghai, it DOES mean a lot to you and your family and, as we are a multi culture country, I sincerely hope that there will be a decision in your favour made in the High Court.

As of yet, no decision has been reached.

Templeton Prize

Just thought I'd share a fascinating article I found on the BBC website

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7955846.stm

You can even add your own opinion at the bottom of the article.

Godless society?

Phew! Reports written, Ofsted visit over and revision for my class begins...
I've also got to write a 2000 word story, create a script for a short film and (as I promised myself) keep this blog up to date!

Enough of my whining... ;-)

So, two weeks ago, I had the unfortunate chance to meet up with the real life equivalent of the 'Shameless' family. (Non UK: Shameless is a British TV program). I try not to be a snob, but when you get a group of foul-mouthed, obese scumbags take over a train carriage (age range 2 to 50) a little bit of liberal sympathy shrivels away.

The cast:
Aggressive 'father' whose advice consists of monosyllabic demands.
Loud mother who clearly takes pride in the amount of gold items she can pin, drape over, pierce, hang over her tracksuit.
Another pair of adults who behave as badly as the kids.
Three teenage daughters (clones of the mother), one of them pregnant (stereotypical) each with their own kids running rampant.
And the kids who have no responsibility; care about the other passengers; wilfully damage property and show no respect to their 'parents'.

You know that if you only look at them, you will get a torrent of abuse because you have clearly shown them some disrespect. They think the world owes them, they blame anyone else for their situation and that they have the right to do what they want.

It's wrong.

People shouldn't be like this. That entire family had no self respect so why should I expect them to be able to show respect to anyone else?

So what is the solution? Well I hear an awful lot about this being a result of a 'godless society' and, I suppose, if you like simple answers to BIG questions then clearly this seems obvious. (You probably think the world was created in six days, evolution is a myth and you truly believe in mythology...)

The idea of this all being attributed to atheism is laughable but all too common. Granted, the word 'atheism' is hardly mentioned but 'godless' is. Religion will not solve this problem. It had its chance and we are still facing the repercussions of its mistakes centuries later.

What religion does offer is a way to ‘avoid responsibility’. (This may take some explaining) You can claim an event in your life (good or bad) is ‘god’s will’ or that god wants you to do a certain thing. See? It’s already out of your hands. ;-)
It would be claimed that religion provides a role model when all it is doing is claiming credit for the deeds of kind-hearted people!
And of course, the marvellous lie that religion provides a ‘moral compass’. Utter, utter, BS!

It’s the ‘moral compass’ that makes me so furious. I’m not a violent person but I really want to punch someone when I hear that from a smug, self-satisfied, ignorant, moron.



The answer? I wish I had it but I truly believe that education, positive role models and the end of our exploitive, sensationalist media would make a huge difference to people’s ways of thinking.

It is one of my core reasons for being a teacher. I want to offer stability, for at least a few hours, in a child’s life. I want to provide the academic and social skills that will help them. I want to give them the best chance in life.

I’m not saying I’m a better person: I’m just a nice person hoping to make a difference.

Offering prayers

So soon after writing a post about how I dealt with the question of death and my father. My mother is ill and mortality rears its head once more. :-(
I have had genuine prayers offered for my mum to get well soon and I really do appreciate their thoughts and concerns. (As I've said, the vast majority of christians are a nice bunch!) Some christians haven't mentioned that they will pray but have offered their best wishes and thoughts. I wonder if they are worried how I would react when offered a prayer. Trust me, I would NEVER scornfully dismiss it or criticise a well meant wish.
I see it as a genuine wish for something good to happen. I wish for good things to happen! It's human nature to want to see good things happen.
Being a atheist, I will not be praying for any reversal of the condition. I have the knowledge that science will alleviate most of the pain and that modern medicine will offer the best chance my mum has. Sadly, in some people's eyes that may seem rather callous - but if that's what they think then I seriously doubt they would understand why I would pity THEM.

The Atheist Blogroll

Sometimes it's great to see what other people think. And us freethinking types are a varied bunch. From the frothing at the mouth to the angst ridden, the observational to the despairing - we want to share our opinions! I love the internet. :-)

There is an atheist blogroll link to the right. Dip in now and again to find out something new. Some of the more balanced have a theistic counterpoint and, personally, I find those the most interesting.

And the poll result is in!

Seems that we don't have any agnostics reading this blog yet. :-)

4 votes for - No. Obviously!

I will have a 'fairer' blog for you all to vote in next. Enjoy!