Those damn, happy atheists!!! Curse them!

I'm seriously getting fed up with religions claiming they have ownership of morality. Apparently, they have 'true' rules to live by since they were given by a supreme, perfect being.

Hmmmm.

Some religions like to soften up the 'rules' by saying they are 'guidance' and of course you are free to to choose your path. Some religions take it to an extreme and use it as a blunt instrument to control or persecute people - quite often, their own believers!

Either way, eventually, if you don't follow the rules, you don't go to heaven - which means you go elsewhere. Nasty.

Nice way to live your life. Trying to follow the rules of a perfect being. Of course you CAN'T. Because YOU are not perfect. YOU will make errors of judgement. YOU are a deeply flawed individual. YOU have been corrupted by all the nasty little temptations in life. YOU may have even listened to ATHEISTS!!!

Us atheists eh? Look at us, living our lives without worrying about whether we might upset god(tm). Using our OWN moral judgements, considering what effect it will have on others around us, ENJOYING life, freethinking, gasping with wonder at the universe - the chaos - the very LIFE! Hey, we don't even have 'self worth' issues about having a common ape-like ancestor - we revel in the fact that all life is linked. We don't need fairy tales to help us understand the 'difficult' science.

But if you are a believer in whatever plethora of gods that really most likely don't exist, don't worry about it.

Seriously.

Those damn, happy atheists will not be laughing when YOU prove them wrong. When you have lived a flawless life. Given up your gut instincts and followed someone else's moral code. Picked the ONE TRUE religion (or splinter group of that religion) out of the tens of thousands. Chosen how EXACTLY how to interpret the holy book and know which phrases did not really apply and reinterpret some phrases so they are more convenient for you.

You KNOW there is a true god(tm). So you simply can't be wrong...




Personally, I'll remain a damned, happy atheist, than you very much. :-)

Conversations with a (nice) christian.

This is a response to my 'Alpha Course' post. (If it has scrolled off the bottom of the page then 'clicky!' )
'JL' is one of those nice christians who (in my experience) make up the majority of christians that are willing to talk to me. Currently we are in the middle of a friendly 'holy war' at our school, where she is trying to get me to appreciate Jesus and I am bestowing the gift of Pastafarian knowledge. I have shown her undeniable evidence of FSM's power by making her jump and pointing out how the kind FSM brings her safely back to Earth with his noodly appendages. (He loves us all and keeps us safe - FACT!)

Randomfish, I believe I might even have been the long-haired born-again that suggested an Alpha course to you.

Yep, The most recent one.

It's not like you have anything to lose, anyway :-p

Well, my scientific reasoning for one...

re: 'based on a relationship, not knowledge'
It always makes me smile that people get so OUTRAGED that the Bible is younger than Jesus, or at least most of it. That it's been *gasp* ADDED TO(!!!111) over the years. Of course it has. Ours is a living God. He didn't just speak once 6000 years ago (you heard right, DB!) and that was it. If you develop a relationship with your living God, he will speak to you. And he will tell you do not have a religion based on laws, you have a new life based on His loving gospel.

We agree here. Religion (especially christianity) has evolved. It has HAD to! Let's face it, if we had the same thinking as we did 1000 years ago, you would look pretty stupid now.
We don't get ill because god is punishing us. We get better because we 1) take medicine or 2) naturally get better over time.
Gods don't live in the sky. We are not the centre of the universe. Evolution is happening. The Earth is over 6000 years old. Morality is not owned by any religion...
Damn those astronomers, doctors, biologists, historians, geologists, philosophers...! They have had to make those crrraaaazzzyyy christians do some drastic rejigging of what to believe! LOL.

'Faith is more important than logic'

Logic is more important than blind faith. Blind faith is an insult to intelligence and reason. Blind faith can be harmful. For example, feel my pain when Arsenal lose! (Thankfully rarely!)

Don't pretend that you have faith in nothing, that faith in itself is ridiculous. You have faith in love, if nothing else, surely.

I DO have faith in humanity; kindness of strangers; love and hope. They are essential for understanding our humanity. I just don't attribute an imaginary friend to fill the gaps in knowledge.

Logic tells me that you can't get evolution from one species to another, only within species. Science tells me that even after thousands and thousands of generations of fly mutations, a fly is still a fly. So how did every living species in the world evolve from a fish? Including, presumably: turnips, scabies mite, chinchillas, sharks etc etc? Are you not putting your faith in a straaaange theory of evolution, hmmmmmm? ;)

Fellow humanists/ atheists, JL is a really nice person and please do not judge someone on their lack of understanding of evolution.

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/different-patterns-of-evolution.html
http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/sat-ii-biology-understanding-origins-of-life.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution

'Because of who god is, we will always have questions'
Of course. And let's face it, when Jesus came and proclaimed himself the Son of God, not many people believed him, and what more proof could God really give us? Perhaps you would like a book full of graphs and diagrams, haha.

I proclaim to be the leader of Alpha Centauri. Can you see the problem with that? Jesus was not the first prophet to claim to lead the Jews. He happened to be the most famous. Stories told, generations later, wrote the gospels with a bias to make him more holy. Events were taken from a wide variety of religions (resurrection, death on a cross, virgin birth, claim of godhood, miracles, 12 followers, betrayal, ascension) sometimes even directly rewriting existing religions. See Dionysus, Osiris, Mithra...
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa3.htm
Jesus, the man, existed.
Jesus, the son of a god, sadly (but it would actually have been rather groovy) is HIGHLY UNLIKELY. More likely a work of fiction and copyright theft.

"You are sinners and in need of a lord and saviour".
Hell for you probably isn't the same idea of hell for me. I think there is a cartoon idea based on lakes of fire with a little red devil with pitchforks. In reality, to me anyway, hell is death; it is separation from love and joy; from contentment and safety and the Lord. For me, now that I know the Lord, no pit of burning sulphur could ever hold as much sadness and fear as separation from His love. But that's just me.

Ahh, you refer to the 'nice' Hell. Depends on how literally one takes the bible doesn't it? Even Jesus refers to Gehenna.
Two very useful sites below
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/jesusteachingonhell.html
and this is pure class.
http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/hellreal.htm (This nutter is doing theism no favours!)

And finally...
My final point I made in a rather fun theological debate is that JL is ACTUALLY a 'humanist with an imaginary friend'.

Peace to you all.

Alpha? Considering... being converted?

Well, it is my blog. So if I want to rant about stuff... but I also have a responsibility to give a more positive view of atheists. It's too easy for us to poke fun at people who believe in superstition, ritual, chance, planetary alignments, ghosts, lucky charms and stuff.

I do feel, in retrospect, that I did sink to a little bit of 'mocking' religion and that does not do atheism any favours. After all, we have the right to claim a higher morality since humanists care about everyone and we truly believe we are fairer than the harsh black and white laws of what ancient misogynistic priests interpreted from their positions of power.

In my continuing browsings of the web, I came across this wonderful piece of advice for potential worshippers...
"It should be noted that Christianity is a religion based upon relationship, not knowledge. It is a religion of faith not logic. The information provided is to help answer questions, but ultimately you must believe in the Bible by faith. Because of who God is, we will always have questions. In order to have eternal life, we need to believe the words of Jesus that we are sinners and are in need of a Lord and Savior."

Brilliant! It contains all the best bits of religion. Patronising, demanding and a veiled threat.
1) 'Based on relationship, not knowledgee'. A slight put down to education and thinking for yourself. Am I not capable of forming a true relationship with anything?
2) 'Faith is more important than logic'. Because logically, there is no proof or even a real need for a god?
3) 'But ultimately you must believe in the bible by faith'. (See previous post - sorry) What bits exactly? All of it? The 'nice' parts? Do I take it literally or simply as a guide. Well take your pick from the 38000 christian denominations... (sigh)
4) 'Because of who god is, we will always have questions". But to ask them is the wrong thing to do apparently (see section 1) (further sighs...)
5) "You are sinners and in need of a lord and saviour". At least no mention of Hell, but an insult nonetheless.

Anyway, all this came as a result on what someone asked me a few months back. "Would you be interested in going to an Alpha course?" BTW - You can send them a question (be nice!) to be discussed - only 125 characters though!
Anyway, I actually wouldn't mind going. Like I have said before, I am an atheist morally, rationally, socially and all this was after a great deal of introspection on my part. Could religion offer a serious alternative? Would my life be improved as claimed by the brochure? Somehow I doubt it, but I don't want to be accused of being 'closed minded'.
All atheists are open to persuasion (seriously, it's true!) but we quite fairly ask for a scrap of proof - real proof mind! After all, an all-powerful god should be able to provide some undeniable evidence? Or at least NOT provide overwhelming evidence to the contrary!

So we get the 'faith' get out clause. That, my friends, is NOT an argument. It's a cop out! 'Faith' is the blanket stupid answer that I find insulting, patronising and clearly shows that there is no real basis for their point of view.
Just imagine if we said that we had 'faith' there was no god? Yeah, that's right. People WOULD laugh at us! All we can honestly say, is that there is a 'near certainty' that there are no gods. 'Faith' apparently is 100% (often 110%!) - There is no debating with some people... especially when they have a poor grasp of basic maths.

If there was an online version of the Alpha course. (I might suggest it) then I would definitely have a go. Maybe I will go to a session one day... :-)

No power for three days!

No electricity for three days!

Wow. Certainly an experience. No light, heating, TV, CD player, internet... makes you realise how much we take for granted. More importantly, how much we take scientific achievements for granted. Have our lives improved because of scientific discovery? That's another blog entry ;-)

It was quite relaxing, sitting by candlelight -we even managed to play a family boardgame- and it gave me plenty of time for contemplative thinking. It was fun (for a while) to make do with what we had. And humbling to think how lucky we still were compared to millions of other families in the world. We had offers of accommodation, showers and meals (even internet access!) which were all appreciated.

Did I find it a spiritual experience? No. Although religion does often try to lay claim to acts of human kindness, it had no relevance in what was simply a power failure and the natural, altruistic behaviour of friends. There are cases where people choose a simpler lifestyle to avoid 'temptations' and they think it makes them better people; there are many who simply want to live off the land and try to harmonise with nature; some just want to be left alone; each to their own, I say. I am not the hunter-gather that my ancestors were many thousands of years ago. I have enough trouble trying to find specific items in a supermarket! I need my luxuries and people we know were more than happy to share theirs.

As I have always thought, people are basically nice. Unfortunately, even in this enlightened age of science and knowledge, some still think they need a magical sky pixie to make it so.

Explaining death to atheist kids.

I would have to say that my boys are probably agnostics. (Let's get that out of the way.)
But are they missing out on a vital part of growing up? Are they more 'evil' than they should be? Am I doing them a disservice by not getting them baptised 'on the chance there might be a god' and more importantly (in some minds) am I deliberately denying them a place in an afterlife?

Fact: My boys are fantastic. They are all extremely caring individuals. They share with each other and with their friends. They are polite and very respectful to other people even when they have not been appreciated for being so. They are quite altruistic and never expect a reward for being so. I am very proud of them all. Quite simply, if there are any gods out there who still think they deserve to go to a place of eternal damnation, then grow up.

My middle son has started to worry about what happens after you die and I think that we have given a balanced viewpoint. We have told him what some people believe: afterlives, reincarnation and let him think about that. What I say is that you remember people, and your life is changed by knowing them. They will have affected you in a variety of ways - some inspirational, some as a warning, some of them will be key factors in how you interact with the world around you.

When my father passed away, he had a humanist service. My boys all drew pictures to put on the coffin of happy things they remembered. As they have grown, I tell them about things my father did. They like sport for instance, which when my father was a younger, fitter man, loved to take part in. (It's in the blood, I tell them; although it seemed to skip a generation with me...)

And that is where a kind of real immortality emerges. My father lives on through my deeds and actions. I learned a lot about being a father from... my father. When I look at my boys, I hope that I will provide inspiration that will last for generations.

No mysticism, no religious 'comfort blanket', no wishful thinking, no lies...

I have told them the truth and I believe it to be a happy one. :-)

Things I'm accused of... (Part 4 - Parenting)

That my children will go to hell. Brilliant. And laughable. Perhaps you are concerned that I am blatantly playing dice with my children's souls and I would honestly have to say thank you. (Again this surprises people but I do appreciate your concern. It shows you care - and that you might, one day hopefully soon, make a good humanist.)

My children have not been baptised because I AM NOT GOING TO CHOOSE THEIR RELIGION FOR THEM. Face the facts. Children are born atheists. They learn about religion purely by chance of where they were born. There are too many religions all claiming that they are the TRUTH(tm) and as a parent, I am quite worried that I would choose the wrong version of events and condemn them to eternal torment / limbo / destruction / reincarnation / not getting picked for the rapture and other such entertaining ideas. (Delete as appropiate)

That I will raise my children as atheists. Ahem. Just because YOU may choose to indoctrinate / teach / brainwash / scare / encourage (again delete as...) YOUR religion, I take the path that my children should choose for themselves. My children have a natural curiousity about the world and ask questions. I give balanced answers but NEVER tell them that one opinion is better than the other. My children occasionally attend church services (Easter, Christmas, Remembrance Day...) and I don't have a problem with that. As a family, we have visited some of the most amazing temples in Asia and Africa and show the relevant respect for their customs.

Most important thing for me: my children will have an informed choice. They are already kind hearted, polite, sharing children with a concern about green issues. (And they haven't even heard of the term 'humanism').